访谈录 Interview 2007-07-23&07-25, 当妈妈成为好朋友

Doctor Drew Pinsky is a host of the radio show Loveline and Doctor Gail Saltz is a psychiatrist 1 and Today contributor. Good morning to both of you folks (Good morning)

Well, I'm, my first reaction to this, I am thinking: 'Great! I, I want mothers and daughters to be close, I love a bond, fathers and sons too , then I start to listen to this, I think, wait a second, we have to live our own lives, and there needs to be more independence than what it sounds like there is in this relationship. How do you feel about this?

As a mother of three daughters, I think mothers should have supreme 2 control over their daughters' lives forever and ever

As a psychiatrist, how do you feel about this?

But as a psychiatrist, you bring up an excellent point, which is it's wonderful to be close, definitely, both parties get something out of a close nurturing 3. But adult-to-adult relationship, which means that the daughter has to be able to feel that she can make independent decisions, and while it might be nice to have her mother's thoughts, that she's not reliant on, and she doesn't feel she can't do it without...

And that sense of independence, really needs being emotional separation, where you are not responsible for the other persons' feelings, and that you also have a sense of the mom appreciates you as a separate person with your own autonomous 4 feelings.

And that there are times when you will draw together to make, to, to deal with each other(s), but there are times you won
't and the one party or another can get upset at those times when you don't.

Well, I mean like with any relationship, you have to negotiate those things, people don't wanna feel abandoned, they don't wanna feel left behind...

If you can't have your mother call you and say “why didn't you call me about that dress you were gonna buy

Absolutely, well, there's...

You, you can, they do do that, but yes, you are right.

Yep, that may happen, but hopefully you have negotiated the place where the mother wants the daughter to be independent, to be a whole person who can make these decisions.

In these particularly close relationships, where is the mummy shrink dynamic, what's driving it from both sides, what's the daughter getting out of it, what's the mom getting out of it.?

Well, I, I think more often than not, we have mom getting a good draw, a bit of the benefit. Moms at these days, in my experience talking to patients, they seem to be very anxious about what their daughters are gonna encounter in life. You know, this generation, unlike our generation, we were sort of the throwing off the yoke 5 of a previous generation, the current young adult, now are less in population, sees adults sort of as an asset, they want them to guide them, but moms who realize their daughters may encounter the kinds of things , perhaps they weren't taught, about the workplace, about making life choices, about career and childbearing , about how men treat you, they don't wanna see their daughters go through that same thing, which is why you see they focusing on the girls and not the sons

And the daughter gets what?

Right! I...It's, it's an easy identification, and the daughter gets to not feel the full responsibility for her decisions, it's like I'm not gonna really make a full mistake because mom is my safety net, but moreover , mom is really taking the responsibility. To some degree, I see a lot of women who will say“well, if I blew this, who do I have to blame” (Right! Oh, wow, that's an enmeshment thought. ) it's mom, as opposed to blaming myself, and there we have, there you have a problem about the boundaries.

Which is a psychological term meaning a lack of individuality? too close, too close.

Alright, we were talking about women and their daughters in their 20s, 30s, so a lot of these women are married, what's the impact on a marriage, when the first person, the, the woman turns to is mom as opposed to the husband.

Yes, hearing could be the huge problem, coz honestly I see mothers and daughters where daughters tell their mothers about their sex life and problems they're having, and that's a total betrayal for the husband, quite honestly.

The guys feel ganged-up on ultimately, they feel like they're being sort of, ganged up, a special way to describe, whenever you get that feeling like you've heard that a young woman has talked to her mother something, you go “hohohoh..” you are like wanna~~ wash your hands

Well I don't think the young woman should tell the husband if she's talked about that.

She should talk about it because her primary ...

They do, they do, she should talk about their first right. And don't tell your husband and because I go, every time you go over to visit mom or mother-in-law, it's like, hohohohoho (oh, my god)

But, but that's the reason, frankly 6 look, if you're trying to have a good marriage, that's a primary relationship, you can't have there be basically a back door that's constantly being open to mummy, (hopefully not anyway)

Gimme a line, alright, for mothers out there , and daughters out there, watching, what's the line where you know either it's (how far is far?) between great healthy close relationship to enmeshment or whatever you call whatever the psychological term was.

It's a hard thing. For me, it's when Mom tries to manage symptoms, if the daughters have some symptoms, any more than if mom were internalized and trying to manage an pneumonia 7 you don't manage symptoms, you get help with that kind of thing, and if you feel totally responsible for one another's feelings. That's what I'd say.

I would say, I would certainly agree with that, in addition, I would say , both people have to honestly be able to look themselves in the mirror and say, we are each independent people who can make decisions on our own, we choose to share these wonderful feelings in which there are many benefits to reap. But at the end of the day, if I couldn't, talk or ask the other person, I really would be fine.

Fine.

It's good information, Drew and Gail, as always, thanks very much.

Thank you.